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Why do some Replicas cost so much when they wear out ?

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by popps, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    5 years for a bank sitter maybe,armor waers down faily quick quick enough that once it's below 20 it done for, so it's not 199 times more like 160-170 for a non bank sitter that plays allot thats maybe 6-8 months. longer maybe if you just use it to PvP
     
  2. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    unless you're on a mage/archer/ or tamer, archers really only need to worry about weapon durability, mages don't really need to worry about armor, tamers even less so than mages, if you're on a melee, then yes, you get screwed on durability, you always are.
     
  3. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    I have just finished reading this thread. I now feel the need to gouge my eyes out.

    Once again, Popps comes on these boards and makes an argument (well, really a whine) about something that he does not have the most basic understanding of, refusing to even try to understand before posting, and once anyone makes an argument opposing his view, or pointing out the flaws in his logic (being generous here, as Popps logic defies normal definitions), Popps changes his argument or totally ignores what he has been told.

    I keep telling myself to stay away from Popps' posts. However, they are like accidents on the Garden State Parkway. When i get close, I often find myself turning my head to see what is going on.

    Or maybe it's like a NASCAR event. The race (thread) starts.....everyone comes zooming by...wait...here comes Popps around the far turn....he's in the wall....smoke....flames.....Popps is all over the track.....he's sideways...backwards....upside down......upsidedown, sideways, and backwards all at the same time.....GOOD GOD MAN....Pit already. Oh the horror........................Can't wait to see what Popps does on the next lap.


    Oh Popps, just a question. Do you look up the God Mode Cheat Code for games before or after you install it?
     
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The challenge.....

    Let's look at it from the views of a long time UO player and from the views of a new comer to the game, shall we ?

    As you noted, UO is heavily item based. Chances are, that a player who has been playing the game for years has already a good stock of good items, helpfull for PvP and PvM.

    A new comer to the game, instead, has none and needs to "catch up".

    As I see it, of the 2, the new comer is at a quite greater disadvantage and, if we talk about challenge as "difficulties" when playing the game, I would imagine the new player having quite more and greater challenges than the long time player....

    That is, the game has much less challenge for the old player than it has for the new player.

    So, the old player asks for the game to be made harder but doing so, this makes the challenge even harder for the new player and the gap to cover even greater.

    I imagine it as if the finish line is pushed always a bit further so to make room for the runners already approaching it but in doing so, those who just started will see the distance to be covered as always increasing.

    Perhaps it is not a good example, I don't know, but I would like to know of all the new accounts from brand new players of Ultima Online (not of existing players opening additional accounts...) how many on average get close within their first year and of these how many get closed within a few months from opening them.

    This, to understand if there is a problem with new players in this game.
    And no, I do not think it is the graphics that has players leave the game early on.

    Personally, at least for me, graphics is what might attract me to a game but once I am in, playing it, it is the content which keeps me or looses me to other games.

    So, I imagine that if new comers to UO start playing and then stop after only a few months then this means something is not attractive enough to keep them playing.

    Could it be PvM ? Could it be PvP ?

    I could well be wrong, but I suspect that part of the reason could be the difficulty that UO currently has, even with the recent changes, for new players to reach competitive levels in PvP.

    Providing ways for new players to reach high end competitive PvP status faster, I think would be healthy for the game and make it for a more lively PvP to the benefit of the game, perhaps.



    That is true, but role playing groups are not so common to find and may require a dedicated new player to actually look for them and make an effort to find them.

    I have an impression that most new players might just get the game and start playing and then go from there and since the competition out there from other games is high, if they get enjoyment from UO without having to go out of their way they stay with it, otherwise, there is plenty games out there to pick another one.

    What I am trying to say, is that some compromise needs be found, I think, to the benefit of the game as a whole, so that new players can indeed reach high level PvP competitive status without having to see it as too much a lengthy task.

    Would this be unfair towards existing long time players to have new comers be able to catch up with them in a fraction of the time it took them to get to where they are ? I don't think so.

    Why ?

    Because if the game dies out for lack of players it is game over for everyone, new and old players alike.

    If there is an issue about new players not sticking with the game and solving this issue may need (I don't know, just guessing...) letting them catch up for a lively and more challenging PvP faster, well, then I would be all for it because this would bring more people in UO's lands, more resources to add new content to the game and more extended life to Ultima Online.

    The challenge......

    The long time players of the game enjoy the challenge ?

    Then what challenge would be best than an increased number of Ultima Online players all PvPing to their level ? on par with them ?

    I have heard this argument a zillion time. No AI can match a human player.

    So, if letting new players get to top PvP status real fast can bring that human challenge ten, 100 folds than it is now, with a scarce number of PvPers, wouldn't it be better ?

    So, in conclusion, would it really be that bad for long time players to see new players be able to catch up to their level much faster ?

    Personally, I don't. I think it would be good, it would be great since it would bring that human challenge and lively PvP at competitive levels which could make the game more interesting.

    So, in all honesty, I do not understand why some may oppose the idea that new players might be allowed with game design changes to catch up with high end PvP competitive levels relatively fastly when this would just increase the level of challenge and so the fun in the game.

    If there is more fun playing versus another human player rather than versus an AI run creature, then shouldn't the most fun be there when playing versus other human players who are at our same level, not a lower one (the challenge....) ?

    Is mine such a wrong analysis ?
     
  5. Why yes, yes it is. As you completely ignore everything that anyone has to say, I'm not even going to go into detail as to how. Now, Ms Lindsay Lohan, what is your next complaint going to be that you are totally ignorant of, yet will try to argue some inane point about, after which you'll turn it again to new players needing to be equal to 12 yr vets within a few months time when everybody proves your initial complaint wrong?
     
  6. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    Popps:

    I agree with you regarding the new player experience and item based game. I think for that very reason crafting wasn't made as strong as it should have by the introduction of imbuing. I have felt that every artifact should have been craftable, but made to require some probability difficulty. Like a crafter would need blackrock to gain a percent chance to imbue an item with HPR 10 on a bracelet or whatever. Artifacts should have had the concept of ancient crafters lived long ago and the creatures collected them...SA brings forth the knowledge of the ancients. BTW...applying blackrock would also make any item unstable in a positive or negative way so you could get negative HPR or -10 dex or whatever. There should be an answer for how we got all those orc helms with negative str and dex.

    I agree that many people getting into a game have a difficult time learning the movements associated with pvp. One thing my kids got me into was bad company first person shooter. That game every person is very close to the same level and it is about the hunt. In that game I can just use a knife and flank everyone and be the best in game. I can play an hour and have a great time without the item based requirement like uo.

    However, your first premise was about cost. I think you completely understand how cost works, but have ulterior motives. Sly.

    -Lorax
     
  7. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Point taken, but costs I see them quite related to PvP so talking about costs can relate to PvP and talking about PvP can require talking about costs......

    The issues are quite connected to each other that I find it hard to talk about one without talking about the other, also.
     
  8. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Interesting.Would definetely be nice and detailed.

    Theres no way you can compare first person shooters to RPG.
    The main premace of first person shooters and strategy games is to be close to equal in regard and kill your opposition with just skill and strategy.
    RPG you role play a character the main purpose is to live in a world making your own story and if you so happen to come against a opponent then that opponet will be either drasticaly over powered towards you or drasticaly underpowered. If overpowered you run to live another day and don't go into the warlock castle untill you become stronger or bring some stronger friends along for the ride.. If drasticaly underpowered you slaughter him and continue with your adventure, if both are close to each other skills and items then you have a great battle were one gains victory or draws. Of course this goes the same when you run into a multiple opponents or something as well.

    Either way thats a RPG you role play and you can battle or not battle and live the life of a simple fisherman. In that regard there is no such thing as true balance in a RPG.
    New players can never be as strong or as skillful as a vet player in a RPG and they should never be unlike first person shooters or strategy games which as soon as you come in your almost equal in most regards and the only advantage one has over the other is that they played the game more. Of course unlike a RPG the sole purpose of these games is to beat the opposition and then your done. They add little upgrades and stuff like that to make it a little intersting but usually the upgrades don't make the person to different from a guy who just started a game for the first time.

    Not even WOW is based on a RPG. WOW is based more on a real time strategy game like empire earth,civilization,age of mythology,etc. True RPG are final fantasy,ultimas,dragonquest,dragon warriors,wizardry etc. Where you start out with basic equipment and you fight and find your way to better items and gaining skill. Till you come to the ultimate boss and win. Though because this is a open world massive multiplayer online game then there is no ending and many other people doing the same thing just setting there own goals and stories.
     
  9. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    If you think back to the days when you were new, you'll remember that as a newbie you spent a good while focusing on seriously basic activities, exploring and starting to train up. If you didn't start in Fel, I'm sure it was a while before you ventured there the first time. You sure didn't know what good gear looked like when you just got started. And equipment and skills were far easier to figure out back when I started, it'd be much harder now. Even if you had friends or guildmates helping out, it wouldn't be easy. I think I played for about six months (this being about 10 years ago) before I would say I had figured out the basic skills and kit available to me, and I probably only knew how to play a couple of templates with any savvy.

    So I'd suggest that newbies these days aren't popping up in Haven and wondering how to get replicas and kick butt in PvP, but instead they're learning the basics of a complex world before they feel remotely capable of fighting another player. That's what the newbies I've met seem to be doing, what about you?

    I'd also suggest that few new players in any game would expect to walk in and take on the big boys - monster or player.

    I'm not talking about making the game harder, I'm talking about not making one aspect easier to serve the misguided view that newbies are put off because they can't be uber within a couple of months. If a new player can come in and a few months later they're taking on any spawn, how long before even they get bored? Do you truly believe that a new player, with a much easier UO would stick around for 10 years or more? I don't.

    What finishing line? I'm sorry, but UO is one of those games where realistically you're never going to hit the finishing line, IMHO it's not that kind of game. When you're building a virtual world with a player community, you want that world to be open ended so players stick around long term and have a continuous supply of things to do and accomplishments to check off. The game is different for everyone, but I really don't think many players are aiming for any "finishing line". We all have our own range of interests and there are few players who play every single aspect of UO - who'd have the time lol!

    There are many reasons why players leave, you could make a long list, but without detailed info (which EA won't provide) your guesses and reasoning are never going to be accurate.

    Jumping on one reason and running with it isn't going to help make this game better. Your suggestions may well make things worse. Which is why I think if you truly want to help new players stick around, you'd do much better if you hung around Haven and helped individual players.

    You're misguided in several ways here Popps.

    Firstly, you're assuming that new players are thinking about PvP far earlier than I think many of them consider it, or even know enough to start trying it.

    Secondly, that an uber suit is necessary - my suit wouldn't be considered uber for PvM let alone PvP. I've fought in the most pathetic suits imaginable and I'm not an uber PvPer - just determined. Doesn't stop me though. You don't need replicas or any super gear to kill another player.

    Finally, you've completely ignored the fact that many players learn and get helped with equipment because they had the sense to join a guild or team up with friends. No matter how much uber gear a new PvPer has, if they walk into a champ spawn solo vs a whole guild they're toast. I have the scorch marks from when I tried that :D They'll keep being toast unless they get very good very quick or get some help from others. And from what I know of PvP guilds, the first thing they'll do is get their newbies trained and kitted out. So I see you assuming that players try to go it solo in acquiring gear and getting started, when there are several easier routes into PvP that make more sense.

    Sorry, but that's just outright wrong. The same chat channels you have to get help will enable you to make contact with RP guilds. Your shard forums will also help. Asking other players in game helps too. Turn up at an EM event and chances are RPers will almost certainly be there. And if for some reason you still come up blank, start your own guild, make some friends and engage in PvP that way.

    You know what, easy games don't suit all players just as harder ones don't suit others. That is not a bad thing - humans aren't all alike. In UO you have the advantage that if one aspect is too hard for you, there are many others you can try instead. Short of wrapping every newbie in cotton wool and holding their hand for the first few years, maybe it's time you let them find the game that suits them rather than try moulding UO to fit the lowest skilled, weakest and most defeatest players out there in the hope they'll stick around.

    There are better ways to help newbies than throwing high end items at them when they haven't the first clue what they're for or even what template they need. Want to make a difference? Help the players themselves, start a guild for the purpose. Just don't start assuming that you know how to fix the game when you don't have many actual facts to support your assertions and by the way this thread has gone, few players seem to think your ideas will work.

    Agreed. But nobody is here saying we don't want more players or that we want to get rid of veterans. We just don't agree that you've got the right idea.

    Again, you're just guessing what will help. I want to help UO be stronger but I know full well that many players are very uncomfortable at the mere thought of PvP with another player. You sound like you believe it's all about equipment, but no amount of arties will get some players even to visit a shop in Fel, nevermind fight there. You need to spend more time speaking to new players and then perhaps you might change your view on what we need to keep us interested.

    Not if those players were of the kind who take it personally when a player trash talks them or attacks them. There are an awful lot of players who are terrified of Fel because of the stories they've heard from others. I spent years trying to recruit guild members and bring them to Fel, so I think I'm quite qualified to say that. PvP isn't for everyone and it's not always about equipment. I accepted that, I have Tram friends alongside Fel ones. And I made the first Fel experience for my newbie friends utterly safe, they just didn't feel comfortable around PvP or in some cases lacked the reaction speed to stand a chance. We aren't all fighter pilots, right?

    No, that's why many of us help newbies and give them kit for free. And why I'm telling you repeatedly that you're off track in your perception of the problem and its solution. You're talking in this post like you think I don't want new players around or new PvPers. I've run a RP town in Fel for almost as long as I've been in UO. Given that background I'm the one person that should agree with you most - if you were correct. The fact that I'm totally disagreeing with you should tell you something.

    Yes. I'm sorry, but I think you're homed in on too narrow a focus and not equipped with enough facts to roll with your arguments here. I think you need to either do more research or just try and help specific players in game that you can talk to and make a difference with. I've helped an awful lot of players, not just tamers, to get established in UO so please don't act as if we're mean old vets trying to spoil the fun for newbies. You couldn't be further from the truth on that point. I'm not blowing my own trumpet here, but from the sounds of your posts I don't believe you've got a good handle of what newbies are thinking and what faults they see in UO. So until you have something more substantial I'm just not convinced.

    Wenchy
     
  10. Vertigo

    Vertigo Guest

    All I have to say is that pops is a genius in that he can string you all along for pages and pages.
    Do yourself a favor and ignore him.
    That is all.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Thanks for the interesting and comprehensive reply.

    You raise valid points and yes, other than my personal feelings I can't say what the situation is about new players who may approach the game; but whatever the reasons may be, whether the ones from my guesses or others, I can't help seeing, when I am in game, most always the same names around hinting me that in the game chances are that most of its players are old, multi-years players or returning players who played the game in the past and come back after a leave.

    Yes, occasionally I see some new names and I imagine they are new players from the questions they ask about the game, the help and advice they seek.
    Unfortunately, of those I think I spotted as new players not many I keep seeing at Luna Bank or Brit Bank or other places where sooner or later some come back in their gaming time for one reason or another.
    Sure, it may well be that they are no longer playing that character I met them with and playing another one instead and that is why I would like to see some statistics about brand new players' accounts, to try understand whether or not the game has issues with new players or not.

    Whether right or wrong, though, I do have a personal feeling, and that is that UO has for the most part a pool of players who have several years of playing the game on.

    I have a feeling that of the current players' pool those within their first year of playing (again, I am referring of real brand new comers to the game not existing players who may have opened up an additional account) are probably a very, very small minority of all the game's players.

    And, if my guesses and feelings are correct, than, IMHO, this is not a good thing for the game because I do not think the game can keep going on for long only or mostly relying on existing players.
    Eventually, whatever the reasons, the existing player pool will thin out and without brand new comers taking the place of those who leave the game can't possibly keep going.

    So, I think we should all try to help each other identify problems and discuss solutions, even given our different opinions about the status of things. This, if we want to keep playing the game still for long and who knows, help UO reach the 20 years mark one day.....

    Is there a problem with new players ? I am not sure.

    Why don't we try to have an open and civil discussion aimed at trying to figure this out, find the causes and suggest possible solutions without trying to cover anyone's bases other than what is best for the game itself to increase the number of brand new players ?

    Is this also such a bad idea if I may ask ?
     
  12. This is a far cry from "why do some replicas cost so much", and is exactly what every single thread you create turns into, since this is the only thing you seem to be able to create post after post about without really saying anything.
     
  13. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    Is popps still rambling? I thought we answered ur question 50 posts ago? I already recieved one fraction for telling you what an ignorant moron you were, lets drop it now since you know the answer already and move on before I get banned from this board for choking you.
     
  14. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    popps has a quest u just a teen that parents abandoned


     
  15. mbraud4

    mbraud4 Sage
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    His quest ended an hour after he first posted, stop trolling.
     
  16. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I have reached the conclussion that popps doesn't actually want an answer. Once again he is treating this board as if it were a debating society, arguing for arguing's sake alone. Therefore this thread is being moved.
     
  17. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah, wow this thread got pretty intense..
    :rant2:
     
  18. LordDrago

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    Awww Petra.....I think Popps was coming around the far turn again and you pull out the yellow flag. NASCAR is no fun under a yellow flag :(
     
  19. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    you are so stupid popps. it's cause the items are rare and powerful.

    only a complete moron would allow them to drop durability and break, as i assume you would probably do.
     
  20. Gus of Llanowar

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    well least we not forget that any replica that is a hat boot sash or robe can be blessed and therefore worth many millions but still far less than a non replica.
     
  21. Tetricyde

    Tetricyde Journeyman
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    This is a terrible comparison... An Archer Fights from A distance... Meaning a bow wouldnt take near as much damage as say an Armor piece or a weapon that actually strikes it's opponent...
     
  22. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Weapons wear-out at the same rate on this game...

    Edit: Only difference is in the rate is the speed of the weapon.
     
  23. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Poobah
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    Weapons wear out at the same rate yes, but isn't there only a durability check when the player takes damage? Archers typically take little melee damage so they should inherently have a slightly lower amount of durability checks on their bows except for when fighting high speed casting mobs. If an archer is fighting a non-casting mob, then they really should never get a durability check right?
     
  24. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Not too sure about the durability check for weapons when players take damage. If there is I might suggest that it is very minimal as I haven't really ever noticed it.
     
  25. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    arg i forgot all abouth my durablity of my replica oak leaf robe when i did a few champs :S

    I only bought it cause i wanted a dyable shroud to cover up my armor.

    Oak leaf robe replica is still ok in price, compared to some other replica's and decoration replica stuff....