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Set me straight please.

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by GarthGrey, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Grand Inquisitor
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    I don't need an exact count, but could someone toss out a guess as to how many UK players , and I mean real players of Siege, not the ones that are icq'd for big events, actually log in and play regularly enough that these EM events have to be scheduled around their log in times ? I get that you're trying with these new times and that it's not easy to please everyone, so please, (those of you that love to chime in with that answer, don't bother here, I already know that), but they only work for people on the east coast of the US, or unemployed basement dwellers in the rest of the country. For those of us in the central US, 4pm doesn't cut it, especially if we also have, you know, families !! So please, to help me sleep better at night, clue me in to this large group of Siege regulars that seem to always get catered to.

    Also, no offense to any of you that don't have the glorious luxury of living in the US. I hold no grudges against any of you, I just know deep down inside, that there are more of us from the US as a group than there are of you all..again, mass icq'n your monstrous member group doesn't count.

    thank you
     
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  2. Mr. Jamison

    Mr. Jamison Journeyman

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    One word and you already know it..
     
  3. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Grand Inquisitor
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    Yeah but I just want numbers to back up the fact. If someone can honestly say "Garth, there are currently 42 active players from the UK ish timezones and we want to be fair to them, then I"ll shut up, if the source is believable, and I'll gripe about something else. But if the answers 2 or 3, or even 10, I"m sorry, but that's not enough to blatantly cater this much. And it's catering, i'll say it this way, for an EM event, it makes much more sense for the UK to have to stay up a little later in the evening, than it is to expect someone else to skip work, or leave work early.
     
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  4. Lady Lavendar

    Lady Lavendar Seasoned Veteran
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    I know many players, not just in the UK but in Europe, Germany, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Russia, Italy. I personally know at least 20 in that time zone who play regularly on Siege.

    My time zone is rediculous as EM events are at 11AM and usually on Friday, but I do not expect events to be set at convenient times for the Hawaiian islands.

    I do understand that the EM cannot make it convenient for all of us. I have to either skip work, or go in very late, which doesn't work well on Friday. However, I am glad that the Europeans get to play.
     
    #4 Lady Lavendar, Apr 20, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
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  5. Tyrath

    Tyrath Crazed Zealot
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    And that is exactly why I have missed almost every event over the last several years. Stop working to go to the house for a UO event or keep working to earn the money to pay the bills. Pretty much a no brainer since the food don't magically appear on the table, atleast not in my real world.
     
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  6. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Slightly Crazed

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    I can do better than Jamison even, I can narrow that one word down to only three letters.

    Tyrath, you should look into getting a personal EM too, then you could have the event mob waiting for you when you got home from a long day of work. Just imagine how nice that must be!
     
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  7. Mr. Jamison

    Mr. Jamison Journeyman

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    Can I buy a vowel?
     
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  8. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Lore Keeper
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    Retired.. Time Zones are irrelevant.
     
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  9. Tanager

    Tanager Journeyman
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    I think perhaps a better question might be what time/day would you want events to be held, Garth?

    If enough like that time, perhaps the 5pm EST could be changed or at least added into the rotation. Bring up your suggestion at the Governor's Meeting - or give the question to some one to ask if you cannot attend. I volunteer. Just remember - an ideal EM is retired and alone, and has nothing better to do than serve Siege, but I don't expect that to always be the case. Our EM likely has family and/or work as well. Perhaps the time of the events has more to do with HIS availability rather than that of anyone else. Considering all the creativity and effort that goes into events, purely for our amusement, it seems fair to me. And it is far better than the alternative of no EM or a borrowed one.

    If the current pattern continues, then we have an EM event every alternating Friday and Saturday. I don't have my dream job, but it is very flexible so I can usually attend most events no matter when they are as long as I have at least a week's notice. I do not need that week of notice if it is always at a predictable day and time. Guess I am just putting in my vote for a consistent time - whatever time it is. I think most employers can work with a consistent availability (or lack).

    On a side note... as much as I love events, one per week is actually kind of a lot. Almost... too much. But that's if I try to attend each one. If you attend only 1 per month, and ask your boss for that one day, then that is still pretty good imo. Unless you have a mean boss :(
     
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  10. Forsaken

    Forsaken Journeyman

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    Whooooooooah...I'm just happy to see that there was a wall of text to follow that; "Set me straight" nonsense. Because I don't think that's possible.
     
  11. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Lore Keeper
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    To be brutally realistic, the server is located on the East coast.. so is the company that currently develops the game. Unless they choose to hire an EM from EU or elsewhere.. there really isn't much of a discussion regarding timing of events.

    This is like any event in any game.. pick a time zone.. and those not in that time zone will complain. Comply or relocate if it is too distressing to adapt. Just sayin'.
     
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  12. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Certifiable
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    I thought the Siege server was in Texas. Guess I was wrong if it is in eastern time zone.
     
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  13. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Lore Keeper
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    Last I checked it was in Virginia or one of the other states in that general location. But I could be wrong. I've only been around a couple of months. But the 20th anniversary is being held in DC and they make the decisions so... bottom line.. I love playing with all players from all over the world. But, those who live overseas and choose to play a US server rather than a server closer to them have to accept that US based EM's just can't work event schedules around them. Or the world for that matter. Otherwise, our EM's would have to hold events 24/7 to accommodate everybody.

    In any case, most of the people that I play with regularly from over seas don't seem to have a problem with it and adapt.
     
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  14. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I believe we are more than 20 and I too was wondering why GG only asked about UK players and not players from Europa.

    It is very hard to find a time that fit whole Siege. Week days do not work.
    Friday will work for EU players but not for US players as they getting home from work later but if time is, when they get home, EU players, who do not work Saturday may be able to play in the middle of the night.
    Saturday may be the best day.
    Sunday will be a problem for EU players as they can't stay up late as they do have work next day, at least most of them.
     
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  15. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Master
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    you do realize that there is no Siege equivalent other than Mugen, right? So there isn't really a choice for Europeans who like the Siege ruleset.


    I think the best solution would be to have events that go on for several days, so it won't matter when people log on. Think the old town invasions etc. or very recently, the bunnies that were left all over the place and stayed for days.
    For events that can't be done this way it might even make sense to have them take part two times within 24 hours but that probably depends very much on the schedule and availability of our EM.

    But to be honest I don't even believe we need all these events. Just go out and play and thus create your own content...
     
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  16. Blind Otto

    Blind Otto Journeyman
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    I am UK based, but recently, work commitments have meant that I've been able to make about one out of every four events.
    Personally, when I can make it, the time is acceptable. I'd actually like it an hour or two earlier - which is probably the exact opposite of what any US player wants to hear! (sorry!)
    Sundays would definitely be a problem for me - as Freja also pointed out. The event would probably go on until midnight, and then I'd need to be up by 5:30 for work. No thanks.
    Hopefully the bull fighting thing will be an exception, or a test to see how well the timing works.

    I do agree with Tanager - Mr Kincaid probably does have other commitments, unless he's a lonely retiree. (No offence to lonely retirees intended.)
    Going by his spelling of certain words, I'd guess that he's not based in the USA, which would certainly have an impact on when he's able to be around.
    I would say the ideal solution would be to have two EMs - one based in Europe, one based in the USA.
    But given how hard we've found it to attract an EM in the past, asking for two is like asking for the moon.

    So to answer the original question, put me down as half a point.
     
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  17. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Poobah
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    Rotating times would be best.
     
  18. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Slightly Crazed

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    I love how this whole thread dances around the issue completely. If you go back 2 or 3 EMs, events were scheduled for WEEKEND days at a time where BOTH EU and US players could attend. obviously someone still got missed, but that seemed to cover the large majority of players. The central issue is that pattern changed without any apparant feedback from the group as a whole. If you go back to the period I'm referencing, 20+ folks were THE MINIMUM that showed up for an event, and generally it was close to double that. And that was in the period everyone described as slow, before we had this influx of new / returning players. Sure Garth is baiting everyone into responding, but he has a legitimate point. There is nothing that says events must be on weekdays. There is nothing that says events should happen at a time disadvantageous to the larger group of players on the server. So to do so implies a specific choice by the EM. Garth is simply asking why that choice was made. And so far aside from a couple of known Euros responding, he has made his point. Even of the few that have responded, at least one of them has NEVER been Seen by me at an event on ANY DAY at ANY TIME, and that player is without question one of the more active players. So, it is really simple, why the change if there is no obvious justification?

    He may be ornery but Garth is correct on this one.
     
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  19. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    No matter what time an event is, it will be bad for some.

    No idea if it is me you speak about. If I'm not seen, the time may have bad for me or I had an other reason to not join the event.
    I'm to old to play very late my time so I may miss some events. I have a RL too.
    I missed one event because my Computer decided to crash and lose the table of contents for my files on my HD with the game and it took me to long time to find out, I only needed to repair the HD to make it work again.
    Also I'm not really much for events with gates to dead traps and big boss monsters so I may skip some of them and give up trying to get a EM items to add to my storages.

    I really love this Easter Bunnies running around on the shard, as at least one little red bunny survived several days so all could try to kill it. Events like that, with different levels of bunnies/mobs and on different places, where they may stay to someone find them are cool.

    In all the years I had been on Siege, I had missed lots of EM events so I'm happy if I get a chance to attend some of them. I can't attend EM events in the middle of the night on a week day, I may be able to Friday and Saturday night but not Sunday night or the first 4 week days.

    But looks like someone here believe we are very few EU players because they never see us as they first get home from work, when we get to bed and of that reason never see us other than maybe in the weekend.
     
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  20. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I'm someone who's awake between naps when I'm tired enough to sleep in spite of the ouchies for a few hours at a time. I'll wander into the game at all times of the day. There were many occasions when GC was scrolling by and wasn't English as a routine thing during the night hours est in America and had many names involved. These Players are probably a big chunk of Sieges crowd and shouldn't have to skip school, work, or sleep to take part in an occasional EM event.

    The idea of batches of EM generated monsters running around the land at all hours of the day sounds like a fun good idea. Particularly for those of us who skip EM events because their just a screen of flapping GD and Gargoyle wings that bury the event going on under them. Make swarms of various difficulty monsters and set them loose on Siege. Some for the super duper skill combos like Sampires and others for those of us who play normal characters like Mages who don't have a prayer of even really injuring the monsters Sampires and such shred easily.
     
  21. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Again I miss the old Gypsy/Brigand camps, that randum spawned somewhere.
    Maybe Mesanna should try to bring them back in an improved version.
    Maybe some randum spawning treasure chests, what would be of different levels and the tresure hunter chests will spawn monsters too and have better loot and more randum loot than the old gypsy chests.
    A few Liches, dragons or something else roaming the land or even player towns would be cool too.
    Anything that can make people traveling the land seaching for actions would be cool.

    I want people to use GC to call for help to remove a nasty something from their town, shop or mining place. Just spawn a few extra healers too :devil:
     
  22. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I believe there is a significant "other than U.S." population on Siege.
     
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  23. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Slightly Crazed

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    Kelmo, belief shouldn't even matter. This is quantifiable. There is a log of every account hitting the login server, and every account leaving. It is basic math. Run a SQL script that queries account logins / logouts over the past x months, Don't even worry about the originating IP addresses origin. Spit out the in/out times, do some extremely basic statistical analysis on what you get, and voila, you have the days and times off highest activity. To account for things like the auction or some big shard wide IDOC, just just run this query over several months to smooth your signal out from the noise. This is something that an admin (read: Dev team) could do in very little time and it can be automated. Then, with quantified numbers in hand, the Producer sets event times for Siege / Mugen. They ARE global shards, so this guarantees you get the biggest possible window of active players for events.

    Again, you and Freja and everyone else are either willfully or unintentionally missing the point. No one is arguing that we don't have non-US players. No one is arguing that there there are a lot of them. What is being argued is that the EM events should be timed to capture the highest number of possible participants. This isn't a beliefs thing, this is responsible management of an online, customer dependent product. All Garth was pointing out was that instead of using such a system as I describe, the timing of certain activities are being changed without a clear discussion of why or a quantifiable justification.
     
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  24. Larisa

    Larisa Publishing Manager, Stratics Leadership Team
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    I agree with Tyrath..I LOVE doing events..and Kincaid is just as creative as Auma (Origin's EM) He's creative and fun and a bit sinister and I like it! BUT the times are horrible for me..I am also central time and 4 PM is smack dab in the middle of the day....I know you can't please everyone but maybe we can have half the events at this time and half at another? I don't know a solution, all I know is that I haven't been able to attend one event since Kincaid started and it's depressing :(
     
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  25. Baby Doll

    Baby Doll Lore Master
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    EM Kincaid, could take on a "padawan learner" who resides in an opposite time zone from EM Kincaid. Let them swap event times around. I skimmed through replies to this post, too much of a text wall, so if this has been mentioned by someone already well I second the thought.


    Nothing but love,

    Baby Doll
     
  26. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    :cool:
     
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  27. Tanager

    Tanager Journeyman
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    I do realize this thread was a bit of baiting, but I think it's worth discussing. So far, I don't think anyone has offered an alternative time other than to exclude weekdays. I don't recall what times EM events were run 3 EMs ago. If we can settle on a time for those who don't like the current time, then we can suggest it today at the Gov meeting.
     
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  28. Arradin

    Arradin Sage
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    1. Implying that US people dont mass ICQ Their friends, top kek.

    2. Implying that Non US People are less relevant than US People. top kek.

    3. Arguing that non US People should "make time" , but budging from US Primetime is not an option "because US people have families etc". Top kek.

    4. Somehow is against rotating times ( Some US timed, Some EU Timed )

    To sum it up, This thread should be considered a huge troll post and bait, and zero respect for anyone who actually argue like this.
     
  29. Tanager

    Tanager Journeyman
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    This thread has the potential to be constructive, so I don't want the post before this one to be the last.

    Ignore the implications that you do not agree with, and offer something useful.
     
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  30. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Slightly Crazed

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    Well, my recommendation is based on clear, observable data. The only snag is that it requires the management to actually MANAGE the game in a manner consistent with other online properties. It is a method that safely ignores each of our opinions. And yeah, the post is trolling, but it does so to make a point. Not that such things have any relevance to this particular niche of the Internet any longer. In a world where the only verifiable testing that is done on development comes from the user base, and is then ignored in a consistently documented manner, asking for anything that can be pinned down to a concrete method or statement is just asking too much.
     
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  31. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Lore Keeper
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    That's a fair point. I may have been to broad in my statement as this is a common complaint in all online games.

    I have no idea how the em budget works and the red tapes involved in hiring an em in another part of the world. But a co-em system has always been a suggestion for as long as I remember.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  32. Tanager

    Tanager Journeyman
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    UO has a history of being a lil different than other MMOs in the industry. For me, UO has always been, and I hope always will be, about freedom. UO remains silent on the topic of trades outside of the game, doesn't try to bring down the freeshards, and rarely steps into shard politics. I know most folks see this as Dev laziness, but I see it as freedom.

    The Devs created Trammel for those folks who don't enjoy freedom, but Siege still has the most to offer. I would not object if the Dev team ran a check on the most populated times, and instruct our EM to set events at that time. This is a game, a business as you said, and not the real world. Still... I like that they leave us the freedom to work this our on our own.
     
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  33. Tyrath

    Tyrath Crazed Zealot
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    Guessing that one you have never seen at a event is me Silent. The last EM event I was able to attend was quite some time ago and it was in that Big Spider under Nujelm. Things like the town invasions, TOT, the Eodon thing , the bunnies I actually enjoy and get to participate in. As Freja points out the random spawning of Gypsy and Bandit camps added some spice. Seem to remember Orc camps spawning here and there as well and still do in the desert. I think what folks want though exceeds the scope of the EM and gets more into the game mechanics and content. Personally I would love to the to old town invasions set up to randomly happen one week Despise raids brit and the next week undead and necros invade Luna and the next week ophidians over running vesper. VvV in the middle of a invasion would be interesting :) Seems like it would be easy enough to chain the old invasions to a RNG and a Timer to randomly initiate a invasion that last for 2 days to a week.
     
  34. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    They need to spread the events among the various times a good chunk of the Siege players commonly are on so all can take part in at least a third of the events. We Players can shift our play hours some to make it to different event times unless their during school/work hours but the EM needs to make sure the event hours vary enough that nearly everyone can get to an occasional EM event without skipping classes or work. If Siege players are as a rule from American and European time zones, that should be doable.
     
  35. Tanager

    Tanager Journeyman
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    Full day(s) events do seem the most broad in scope, and the most popular. At the moment, EM Kincaid appears to be plopping Soulless creatures randomly across the land. These are hard to kill, and have decent loot (or so I am told). This is, I think, part of the story arc of the invasion at the last Gov Meeting. As I read the events listed for future, it seems Siege is being set up to fight an invasion. We are being given a choice to fight along side the King, or join a rebellion.

    I think this event will be fun :p
     
  36. Drakelord

    Drakelord Babbling Loonie
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    mine 2₵

    First I think EM Kincaid has been above approaches with any of the events we have had. He is bending over backward to accommodated a huge difference in time zones for a lot of people that play Siege. For me, there are no concerns as I am retired and can play when I wish to play, but there are others folks with families, jobs, real life in far away lands who try to play when they can. At the forum now we know of two that will not make it to the governor meeting, due to real life. Is Kelmo a governor I'm not sure? Brit Governor is asking for someone to sit in for him as he cannot make it, I hope he gets someone soon. Skara Brea may not make it as that Governor lives in the island state of HA. Still, EM Kincaid has tried to meet this by adjusting events times. That a huge load to carry and I salute you, sir. And Skara Brea Governor, Kenzie is a citizen if you need someone to sit in for you today.
     
  37. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Slightly Crazed

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    Nope Tyrath, not you, as your case is part of my argument FOR using metrics to establish things like EM Event times.
     
  38. Tanager

    Tanager Journeyman
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    In addition to the scheduled weekly EM events, Kincaid is in the habit of dropping in on player events, and even surprising players out in the field from time to time. He cannot assist them in hunting of course, but I think it's fantastic to have such an active EM. Tossing a paragon crimson dragon bunny on the doorstep of the Britain Hub was immensely entertaining!

    It may be that everyone will just have to adjust to the time the EM has set forth for the weekly events, and those who cannot make them will be able to enjoy the day long ones that I suspect Kincaid will start producing in response to the standing ovation he received from the Easter Bunny event. However, if we could come up with a different time to present to him as a suggestion, he might consider it. Can't hurt to ask. I am hesitant to bring it up myself at the meeting for fear of sparking a debate in game. I would rather offer a time that we have agreed to before hand.
     
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  39. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Grand Inquisitor
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    I don't even know what your response meant, but top kek anyway.
     
  40. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Grand Inquisitor
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    This wasn't a Bait post, but it went exactly as I knew it would and it totally proved my point. The people I knew would respond a certain way, responded a certain way. I need to go pick some Powerball numbers now. Thank you to those that actually got the point and didn't lose sight of what it was.
     
  41. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    Yes seem like there are more to come

    upload_2017-4-21_19-22-15.png
     
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  42. Sparviero

    Sparviero Journeyman
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    Well i can understand your point of view and how you fell because most of us want join in these events... I'm an European Player (from Italy) and if the time isn't perfect for me (10 PM UK it's 11PM for me and so in many events i can't play till the ends because i wake up each day at 6AM) at least i can attend events from the beginning. Since Em Kincaid join us on this shard i saw many many people attended his events with this time and i'm also sure many other players can't do the same (many guildmates are US player so not all can play at this time). I think it's nearly impossible know if there are more US players (east/west) or European Players, so i think EM set up this time because he thinks it's the better time for most of us. Maybe he is wrong or maybe he is right but the only solution is speaking with him. He is always very kind and i think if we ask him about this problem he will give us an answer. I don't know where he lives but if he is european maybe during the day he has a job and so he can set up event only in European evening time. The perfect solution will be held same events in differents days and time but we can't ask to a person to spent all his life here in game and we also know that it's nearly impossible have 2 EM (we had to wait so many months to have only one EM not shared with other shard). So maybe the solution is held event in a time and the next in another time but i'm sure that there will be always someone will complain because he can't attend this or that part. It's a very hard work find the perfect time and i know it because i had the same problem with the Events we held in UWSP town. Anyway i'm sure at 100% if you send an Email to our EM or ask him in game you'll get an answer and a solution.. I trust him and i'm sure he'll do his best to help us in all way :)
     
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  43. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Slightly Crazed

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    No. Tanager, I have no ill will towards you whatsoever, please don't think what I'm about to say is directed at you in any way, but no.

    Let's talk about asymmetrical feedback distribution. Pretend for a minute that you own a global business with geographically dispersed customers. Your businesses makes a consumer good used across your whole customer base, let's say cookies. However, unlike other cookie producers, you change your flavors on fairly regular cycles. For this to be successful, you rely entirely on your customers, the cookie eaters, to determine what the next Flavor will be. You provide a means for any customer to send you their suggestions. Sounds great, right? You want to sell cookies, they want to pick cookies they like, everyone wins!

    Next season's cookies are being planned out, and you see an overwhelming response this season, you get a number of messages equal to 20% of your total customer base. Wow! That is great, they all say they want oatmeal cookies next. Great, a 1 in 5 response with a uniform message, this is outstanding. (And to be clear, that kind of response really would be considered overwhelming back in reality).
    You bake the next run of cookies, the much solicited Tanager oatmeal ones, and our they go to the store.

    But something weird happens. In one market, western Europe, the cookies sell even better than expected. But everywhere else your sales plummet. In fact, you sell so few cookies everywhere else that even the great sales in western Europe aren't enough to keep you in business. With heavy heart you have to close the Tanager cookie business for good. How could this happen? Everyone said they wanted oatmeal?

    What you didn't account for was the possibility of an asymmetric feedback distribution. Your assumption was that the 20% of all customers feedback was evenly distributed among every type of customer you sold to (and this kind of assumption is used quite often for certain types of analyses). Unfortunately, (because you had not built into your feedback system a way to verify the details of your customer profile when they sent in a suggestion), ask of those requests for oatmeal came from one small minority of your customer base. That's right, western europe. In fact, where the response distribution was less than 5% from any other area of your customer base, western europeans had a response rate of over 50% (math not exact here, just an example). This created an asymmetric feedback response. Without realizing it, you catered the central characteristic of your entire business to one vocal, organized minority. And it ended badly.

    Now you know where I'm going next, I'm sure. Replace cookies with online game experience, replace Tanager with the dev team, and, well hell, we all know what should replace western europe in this case.

    This is the fundamental issue for Siege. If you took the time and read back over the last several years, this issue is at the heart of ALL major issues between Siege players and the devs. Here's why:

    In the past when many, many more people played here, there were enough coherent, vocal representatives of each play style on Siege that it was rather difficult for any one group to create this type of asymmetry. As time went by, two things happen,

    First, dev team resources began to shrink significantly. This resulted in a looser standard on what were acceptable practices for game management because the mindset was We have limited resources, let's focus on the critical stuff (Stygian Abyss, High Seas, etc)

    Second, the very nature of Siege began to work against itself. Created as a haven for the players who preferred the earlier, bloodier, riskier days of UO, Siege attracted strong personalities who liked that in game adrenaline rush. They may not like getting PKed, but they like that it was a possibility. And over time any number of these players would form, disband, and reform into various combinations of guilds and alliances. But BY NATURE, the personalities in these would eventually chafe and go their separate ways. With one notable exception.

    GIL at first glance seems completely out of character for the model I just described. If you read through their old material, NOTHING about it screams Siege Perilous. But in the context of a shard still in its wild wild west days, GIL could attract people because they WERE different. They represented order, with arigid hierarchy and seemingly inflexible rules. They were the good guys fighting for order against overwhelming odds on Siege. And even now the appeal to something like that is obvious.

    Unfortunately for Siege, that type of structure, one that attracts order, hiearchy,and a willingness to subsume personal interest for the safety of the group is FAR, FAR more likely to remain intact vs the haphazard collection of highway bandits. Even the current VICE alliance hangs together by the thinnest of margins on a daily basis.

    But GIL remained. As entropy did its terrible work and the game, the shard, the players slowly and inexorably faded, GIL remained relatively cohesive.

    Which brings us to the last few years, and back to asymmetric feedback distribution.
    If an EM creates a mob and drops the players in only to have everyone PKed, the scraggly lot of VICE players are not going to be unified in ANY kind of response. Just ask Max how successful he's been in keeping everyone in UO Cart or or Discord server (hint: not very). But GIL, by nature, will set a response and act on it. Because at the end of the day, if you don't, you won't be in GIL very long. If that response is email the EM and Mesanna, from their end it looks like a random sample off Siege is really really upset about something. There won't be a competing response from VICE that comes anywhere near the same level of volume, because we are a bunch of crotchety independent donkeys for the most part.

    There are direct examples of this in the recent past (e.g. Councilgate).

    We often level a lot of criticism at GIL, but it is important to remember, for the most part, this hasn't been premeditated. It is just the natural evolution of or little social system.

    So Tanager, if you've made it this far (and bless you girl if you have), you can see why ANY solution that ends with "let's email/post our picks for time" isn't workable. Because my dear, that road only leads to oatmeal.
     
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  44. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Slightly Crazed

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    Damn that post took so long to write I forgot to even highlight what happens when Tanager Cookie Company hires a new marketing manager from western Europe who cuts deals on the side to provide free cookies to the Welsh. Shucks....
     
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  45. Tanager

    Tanager Journeyman
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    *tips over her king and walks away*
     
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  46. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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  47. 805connection

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    each event should bet set 12 hours from the time of the previous event, maybe even two EMs to make it better
     
  48. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Lore Keeper
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    Wow. Really? Did you re-read it and go "I am way off base"? Just asking.. cause this is like Jerry McGuire mission statement stuff.
     
  49. Tanager

    Tanager Journeyman
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    My goal in responding to the original poster was to encourage people to offer times THEY would like to see an event. I am not interested in having a higher authority dictate when and how we should have EM events. Whether or not the Devs can or should is irrelevant - they are not likely to do so. I did think it was possible that the adults playing this game could think of something as a community.

    I concede defeat.
     
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  50. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Lore Keeper
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    Agreed. 1am 2am 3am 4am 5am 6am 7am... I think you get the gist. ;)

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