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RL gun discussion from UHall thread "Savage Empire had guns."

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Kylie Kinslayer, Jun 12, 2016.

  1. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Poobah
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    Oh boy... this should be good... especially being posted today..

    :popcorn:

    Something tells me there is a better chance of being able to place castles in Ilsh...
     
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  2. Aran

    Aran Always Present
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    What's special about June 12?

    Also castles in Ilshenar should be allowed... you just have to find a flat spot to place!
     
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  3. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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  4. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    old gypsy and Kylie Kinslayer like this.
  5. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, that is what I was referencing.


    Hmmm... this brings up another interesting point.. Can Mesanna actually explode a Stratics character... if so I want video :mf_prop:
     
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  6. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Stratics Legend
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    You are %200 right a gun never killed anyone just the stupid fool holding/dropping it. Was just pointing out why @Kylie Kinslayer and me too thought it was maybe a little bad timing.
     
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  7. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    And the US just so happens to have a lot more stupid fools holding/dropping guns than any other modern industrialized country out there...quite the coincidence.
    /end sarcasm

    Our country has a problem with guns and it's pretty ****ing obvious.
     
  8. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Poobah
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    Hmm.... why do I see this moving to Off Topic or Sipels shortly...


    with that said...

    I can't argue with the first part of your post.. but I will add.. if one, two or ten smart, honest, decent, law abiding people in the club had been carrying the body count would have been MUCCCHHHHHHH smaller.

    On the second part.. Yeah, it is obvious we have a gun problem.. not enough good folks are carrying to combat the crazy ones who do...
     
  9. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    So many scream for places to be gun-free yet never manage to think of the fact that they are creating safe zones for killers who know there will be nobody there armed to stop them. So stupid. :(
     
  10. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    I mean, that rational is just giving in to a culture of fear. If that was the case, what's the function of law enforcement? Not everyone should be endowed with the power of taking another person's life.

    By your logic, the surest way to achieve world peace is by giving every country a nuclear weapon...which is a terrible idea. The solution to the problem can't be more of the problem.
     
  11. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    The minutes it took for law enforcement to arrive got 50 killed and as many wounded. There was no one there to stop the killer immediately, so he was free to slaughter people as he wanted.
     
  12. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Poobah
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    As the very popular meme says... when seconds matter, the police are only minutes away.. imho the police are a great secondary source of safety. Nothing more, nothing less.. and that is not a slam against the Officers in the country.. only a commentary on how limited they truly are in response time..


    Strawman much? ;)
     
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  13. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
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    Whenever I see stories about mass shootings, especially this one, I get confused. Even if nobody in there had a gun, when everyone is watching the guy gun people down did nobody think to maybe tackle him or something?

    How did over 100 people get shot and nobody thought to charge him as a group and take him down? I completely understand not wanting to get shot yourself, but after the guy has already shot 10+ people he obviously isn't going to stop so at that point your choices are to stand there doing nothing waiting until he feels like shooting you next, or at least do something and attack the gunman.
     
  14. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Good question Captn, seriously good question. Anyone behind him with a chair or bar stool could have floored him and just kept pounding on him, why didn't someone? Everyone there were timid passive people?
     
  15. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Poobah
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    Just my opinion here and it may offend some folks but I just hope I don't get infracted for the response lol..

    imho it's because men (it does not matter, gay, straight, trans et al) have been neutered for years and years. We are continually told how the "FIGHT" part of "fight or flight" is not the correct way to be. Decades of men being told to be "softer, gentler and easy going etc" has given rise to just that very thing.

    As proof of that "changing" I offer this... In 'Nam Marines were taught to hate their enemy.. these days those same Marines are "taught" to respect their enemy... *shrugs*
     
  16. BeaIank

    BeaIank Crazed Zealot
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    I take you haven't been on a situation where your life was in the line.
    Instincts kick in and you mindlessly try to distance yourself from the source of danger.

    It takes serious training to get over that basic instinct.
     
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  17. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    Seriously. A bunch of tough talk, probably, 40+ year old white guys who still play UO...

    Having had a gun pulled on me twice in real life, I am very glad that I ran both times rather than reach for a weapon...as the person probably would've shot me had I escalated the situation further.
     
  18. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    Nope, just following your logic.
     
  19. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    apparently he had a suicide vest on - which might have given people pause to rush him. also, most were teenagers and a lot of women.

    that aside I live right here. as far as gun-free it was only because alcohol is served there. Florida isn't a gun free zone friendly and allow concealed weapons in most places.
     
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  20. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I've known women that few want to mess with. While they might lose to a much larger guy hand to hand, he'll have been ripped the fabled new one by the time she went down to stay. Strong survival instincts. Can't outrun bullets so you have to stop the shooting.
     
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  21. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *shakes head* This is troll 101.
     
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  22. BeaIank

    BeaIank Crazed Zealot
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    You can't expect people in a state of mass panic to think in a rational way.
    It just doesn't happen.

    You either have to be desensitized by repeated events or taken it out of you due to military training.
    I am practised with firearms and if I could, I would concealed carry a .38 revolver with me, but guns are soft banned here in Brazil.
    Still, if the people carrying them aren't properly trained to deal with this kind of situation, they wouldn't be of much help.
     
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  23. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Not everyone there would be involved in the mass panic. I'd have gotten my lady under cover best I could as the first priority, second priority would have been making sure the shooting was stopped before she was hit.
     
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  24. The Craftsman

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    Which do you want America? To keep your insane gun laws that allow any psychopath to freely buy an automatic weapon or to stop shooting the crap out of your own people, including children? Surely it must have dawned on you by now that you cant have both? This happens time after time after time and no other civilised country has this problem. Its your asinine gun laws. And this is the country that banned a Kinder chocolate egg as it had a small toy in it that you deemed dangerous. Yet any lunatic can buy a gun from the local supermarket. Insane.
     
  25. Aran

    Aran Always Present
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    Okay I'm going to address this once.


    Britannia has no laws on firearms, which is the topic of this thread.
     
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  26. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    Very well said. We all would like to think we would be the one. You don't know that until that moment. What makes that one person who does heroic is the fact that the majority of us would seek shelter. That doesn't make us wrong. That makes those who do very very special people. See Dave Sanders from the columbine shootings.
     
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  27. Zalan

    Zalan Crazed Zealot
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    Not anyone can by automatic guns. Automatic guns that can be purchased are from 1985 or older. You must obtain a Federal Permit or License I forget which. Taking guns out of the hands of law abiding Americans is not going to fix this immediately. It would take several years to round them up. Even after that's done criminals and nut jobs still have other ways to acquire firearms. It may escalate the number of suicide bombers using homemade bombs.Which would cause more death than semi-automatic weapons.
     
  28. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    It may also result in pigs falling from the sky. Thanks for the baseless musings though.
     
  29. Zalan

    Zalan Crazed Zealot
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    I used the term may. Learn to read what is written nor what you want to hear.
     
  30. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    Yes, and you can come up with an infinite number of random hypotheticals by using the term 'may'.

    My hypothetical was just as valuable and baseless as yours. Don't be so salty.
     
  31. Aran

    Aran Always Present
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    I'm pretty sure I hate all of you.
     
  32. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    If only you had started this thread yesterday...
     
  33. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Poobah
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    "Shall not be infringed"... that is how I want America. Simply put, a law abiding citizen should not have to prove themselves "good enough" to have ANY weapon. I should, by letter of the Constitution, be able to walk into any store and walk out with an M-60 if I so desire. My inability to do that, on a whim, if I choose to, is an infringement on my right afforded to me in one of our founding documents.

    Ya want "gun control"? Control them from the criminals first.. then come and talk to me..
     
  34. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Poobah
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    btw...

    Quick :thumbup: to the Mods and staff!

    I know in the past, not only would this thread and these posts not have been allowed, but most of us probably would have found ourselves being admonished and maybe even gotten a point or two...
     
  35. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Do the absolutely insane thing? Take all legal guns in America and make our country one big safe zone for killers with illegal guns. They can slaughter men, women, and children to their hearts content as long as they get their jollies and leave before law enforcement arrives a few minutes after the slaughter starts, Then they can go murder innocent people somewhere else with no fear of being shot themselves.
     
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  36. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Poobah
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    Yepp.. that'd be the plan..

    If ya notice the "protesters" (aka rioters) are only doing the violent junk they do in relative "gun free zones'. Bring that kinda junk to Ga or any other "stand your ground" state and see what happens... Hmmmm.. will never see them egging and beating on folks down here? Why? Because a "reasonable" person would take that stuff as being a direct threat on their safety and/or life.. ;)
     
  37. BeaIank

    BeaIank Crazed Zealot
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    I sincerely hope no one here will have to be in a situation where they have to find out if they are the one.
    It is scary as hell. :(
     
  38. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    Agreed. I do however think we need a better screening process. Guns are a given right by the US Constitution. It states nothing about speedy.
     
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  39. BeaIank

    BeaIank Crazed Zealot
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    Access to firearms is a pretty important thing to have, yes.
    Things are hellish down here because we do not, but the process needs to be more thorough.

    And I believe carry needs to only be allowed for people who actually care to go through lengthy training to gain the right. Guns are serious stuff, and whoever is carrying need to take them seriously too.
    Carrying that much responsibility requires one to be very well prepared to handle it.
     
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  40. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Just some musings from a rather conservative bystander:

    I'm 70 years old now. I firmly support the 2nd Amendment, but I've never fired a gun. Still, not too long ago I actually thought (since I do live alone) it might be a good idea for me to purchase one for home defense. I spoke with my son about it. I trust his wisdom on the subject since he is exceptionally well trained, thanks to the U.S. Marine Corps. Now a civilian, he has a concealed carry permit. Although he was not at all opposed to the idea of his mother having a firearm, he did express a few concerns, which we discussed. After doing so, I decided to think about it for a good while.

    In the end, I eventually nixed the notion for several reasons. (1) I had a shotgun in mind since I just don't like handguns and don't think I'd have a very good aim. However, when he introduced me to a shotgun he owns, explained how to operate it, then handed it to me, I knew it was too heavy and I was so nervous I almost dropped the darn thing. (2) He reminded me that I have a dog that would most certainly get between me and any attacker, and if I fired a shotgun I might very likely take out my own pet. (3) Whether I bought a handgun or a shotgun, I honestly don't see myself spending a lot of time at a firing range practicing, which would leave me in that "untrained" category. And yes, I do think a gun owner should be reasonably well trained in both the care and the use of their weapon. It's quite a responsibility.

    Anyway, having made that decision, last week I did the next best thing. I joined the NRA, because I believe in what they stand for, even if I don't own a gun.
     
    #40 old gypsy, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  41. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    The important training for gun owners is to know not to, and be able to keep from , shooting before you i.d. your target. That shadow in the hallway or person behind that opening door could be someone you love instead of a bad guy.
     
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  42. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Poobah
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    Definitely agree here.. and should also stay continually trained as well. Muscle memory, target acquisition/identification etc fades over time rather quickly. Also, like I have always told my son and anyone I "train".. don't only know what your target is, but also know what is behind your target as well. Can't tell you how many "hunters" I have watched shoot a deer as they were aiming towards the road and they never once listened for a car coming etc.. just threw up and fired.. needless to say those "hunters" were kicked off the lease land quick..
     
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  43. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Certifiable
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    And yet you are constantly surprised and outraged when families and children are massacred time after time after time. 372 mass shootings in 2015 alone killing 475 people. 64 shootings in schools. Over 13,000 people killed in gun crimes. And thats just in one year!!

    Your right to bear arms is an outdated antiquity. It was created on the back of a civil war and was never intended for a time when automatic weapons capable of mass destruction are readily available to every psychopath out there. Grow up america. Countries with robust gun laws do NOT have this problem. Only you. Coincidence? I think not. By all means cling to your antiquated "right" that most of the civilised world sees for the obsession that it is but quit complaining when your families and children keep getting murdered. You have created this yourselves and if you werent so hung up and obsessed with an outdated concept you could created laws that would stop the murders ... like the rest of the civilised world have.
     
  44. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    It's easy to toss out numbers while ignoring essential differences between the United States and other countries in the "civilised world". How many of those other countries have a population in excess of 324 million people, rapidly rising every year largely because of illegal immigration that the leadership refuses to do a blessed thing to stop? In addition, countries that have deprived their citizens of the right to defend themselves are experiencing increasing crime rates, regardless, effectively turning their law-abiding citizens into sitting ducks, unable to legally defend themselves or their property.

    Americans have traditionally cherished Liberty aka Freedom (not to be confused with License, which is not the same thing at all). I believe that those who fully understand and believe in Liberty will not easily relinquish it. They know that Liberty is not always perfectly "safe" because it absolutely requires the exercise of personal responsibility and the courage to deal with a certain amount of risk in life.

    There are so many factors that could be brought into the argument, but it would be pointless. Nothing is going to be adequately addressed (and certainly won't be solved) here.

    As for myself, I may not own a gun, but I refuse to give up my right to own one if I should ever change my mind.
     
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  45. The Craftsman

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    And theere you have it. Clinging to an 18th Century 'right' in a 21st century society complete with widely available 21st century weapons of mass destruction. You had a right to own a slave at one time too but society has now realised this is wrong and it has changed. Gun laws should follow suit. Keep your right and be prepared for atrocities of this sort again and again and again this year and every year. Im not even shocked or surprised anymore. Saddened is all.
     
  46. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Don't mix apples and oranges. Preserving the right of ordinary law-abiding citizens to defend themselves against criminals and/or terrorists has absolutely nothing to do with slavery. Oh, just as a point of information, some of my own ancestors were abolitionists... and in 70 years of living I have never met anyone who defends the enslavement of others.

    This is the reality: The atrocities you speak of will not stop if you disarm good people, and you will never succeed in keeping weapons out of the hand of criminals.
     
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  47. The Craftsman

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    Nonesense. This problem does not exist in societies with civilised, robust gun laws. You just keep clinging to your 18th century rights, which are no longer relevant in todays society, and watch your own families, friends and children get gunned down again and again. This will not stop whilst you keep antiquated laws. we are supposed to be more civilised than that in this day and age, and those countries who choose more sensible gun laws do not suffer anywhere near the scale of atrocities that america does. But you just cling to those 'rights' and watch innocent people die why dont you.
     
  48. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    You may be "civilised". Sadly, criminals - and many people currently flooding into civilized countries - are sometimes not. Keep your eye on Europe for a start. In the meantime, I'll support the NRA in my country.

     
    #48 old gypsy, Jun 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
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  49. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Seem to recall a guy in northern Europe who went into a summer campground and started shooting people several years back. Various armed terrorist attacks, etc. Yes the problem does exist in societies with civilized robust gun laws leaving their citizens defenseless. Do a little research of old news in a library and find out how full of puppy chow you are.
     
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  50. The Craftsman

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    It can happen in any country. But its far far more likely to happen (and does ... far more frequently) in a country like america where guns are more readily available. Hows being able to defend yourself with a firearm working out for you over the last few decades? Not very well judging by the numbers killed and the volume of mass shootings. As a deterrant its failing. As a defence measure its failing. Its a myth that arming the masses gives them any security. The opposite happens as there is a huge increase in incidents where guns are readily available.

    Im done with this conversation. Keep your asinine outdated rights and keep shooting the hell out of your kids.