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Eagle/Phoenix

Discussion in 'UHall' started by PaithanTheElf, May 16, 2017.

  1. PaithanTheElf

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    So there is a pet that can run as fast as a person on mount, dismount, cast spells non stop, and hit hard. It looks like an eagle to me but I have been told it is a phoenix.

    Was this intended to ruin pvp or what?
     
  2. de LEET ed

    de LEET ed Lore Master

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  3. Fridgster

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    Works great in pvm. Working as intended. :)
     
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  4. de LEET ed

    de LEET ed Lore Master

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    Why would you need a bird that runs as fast as an exodus in pvm? You arent chasing monsters. Had to be looked over.
     
  5. Merus

    Merus Crazed Zealot
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    How else is your pet supposed to fight Exodus while he is chasing you on horseback? duh!
     
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  6. Fridgster

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    Cause I can :)
     
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  7. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Was brought up pre publish. They didn't do anything. It's a phoenix.
     
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  8. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    Please post a video of ANY PET in fel that is killing you. Or STFU.
     
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  9. Larisa

    Larisa Publishing Manager, Stratics Leadership Team
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    And if he does, we can all secretly laugh and point at him ;)

    LOL no just kidding...seriously PvP damage is reduced to 30%....me and some friends tested this on TC putting Armor Ignore and Dismount and such on pets and attacking each other.

    I think it took his Cu about 10 minutes to dismount me....and if you're gonna stand there and let some pet beat on you for 10 minutes...that's on you ;)

    I don't think you have anything to worry about....just don't look at the Blood Fox! He's hella fast too...not as lethal...yet!
     
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  10. Fridgster

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    Honestly this kinda shows how little I know about pvp. I thought someone bringing 5 lesser hiryus with 90 bushido being the only requirement would have unbalanced something. But no it was actually a fast bird that is going to be unbalancing. Who'd a thunk it?
     
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  11. sacred fungus

    sacred fungus Visitor

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    Seems this guy is always crying for something to be nerfed. Kinda hard to take him seriously when he thinks everything in the game is overpowered
     
    #11 sacred fungus, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
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  12. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    Slowing down the Phoenix run speed is a good idea. No pet should be able to chase a player like that.

    Also slowing them down would not negatively affect them in pvm in any shape or form.
     
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  13. CovenantX

    CovenantX Crazed Zealot
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    Yea, that would have been the case (or 5 frenzied ostards) but they fixed that when they made pets automatically increase to +1 follower as soon as you "imbue" abilities, stats, or skills on the pet.
    They also fixed it with scaling "Base Damage Per Second" with the pets current follower count.

    If they're moving like paragons or faster they have more than cap dexterity (150)... I could have sworn that they put a 150 cap on dex... maybe it was stamina?
     
  14. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    He may not be on my list of favorites, but I do value his opinions dealing with anything PvP.

    I agree that the phoenix is a nasty critter, but it does make a great counter to rock when playing with scissors.
     
  15. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    Dex is not capped. The cap is for stamina.
     
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  16. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    It was stamina that was capped thankfully. Dex affects movement speed, stamina the rate of attack.
     
  17. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    Gargoyle tamers with dismounting Phoenix gonna be a new thing
     
  18. CovenantX

    CovenantX Crazed Zealot
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    Well technically, it wouldn't matter if stamina was capped then... pets can't attack faster than 1.25s (just like players) which is reached with only 90 stamina... thus increasing stamina beyond 90 only serves as a buffer to taking damage before dropping swing-rate.
     
  19. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    :confused:

    Counter to what exactly? And what is the counter for the phoenix?
     
  20. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    Anyone who defends the Phoenix depends on it and can't play without a crutch
     
  21. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    @Bleak

    Can you take a look into this issue?
     
  22. PaithanTheElf

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    Well if you don't actually pvp- maybe it is best not to give your input- especially with your test being with a different creature.

    These birds have dismounted me very quickly and then can stay on top of you hitting you and casting spells. Because it can stay right with you- the owner can play on mount and just T-off while you are taking all the damage.

    I have been seeing more and more pop up over the last week.
     
  23. PaithanTheElf

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    Crazy that I want balance, I know. I at least post to nerf templates that I main when they are overpowered. Bet you can't say the same.
     
  24. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    HAS ANYBODY BEEN KILLED BY A PET? @cobb @PaithanTheElf

    I have 20 or more fully developed pets. If these are so overpowered why has Fel not been over run?

    Selling overpowered pets! Only 175 Mill
     
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  25. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    It would also be a good idea to not allow pets to dismount another player if the pet's owner is not on foot. There is a perfectly good reason why players are not permitted to perform dismount while riding a mount or flying. Remember when Lances were first introduced, and you could dismount your opponent without getting on foot? Yeah, that was bad and nerfed for a very good reason.
     
  26. -Hey Arnold-

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    They nerf speed cu's then add a pet faster then speed cu's that can dismount...makes sense. @Bleak
     
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  27. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    There were never any Cus that could go faster than any other mounted pet. FAKE NEWS

    Do you people even play??? This is a serious question.
     
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  28. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    calm down guy. nerfing phoenix speed is not going to affect you
     
  29. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Bird slayer Talisman? DUH!

    Counter to 4/6 chiv dexers? *sarcasm*
     
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  30. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    Clueless. Pets with higher dex can keep up better. You cant ride the ones with more than 150 dex.

    They also don't run as fast as a player can. But they almost don't get lost when you run somewhere. But, I'm sure you know this. So it affects the tamer in Tram or fel.

    upload_2017-5-16_17-41-23.png

    This thing has dismount and can take your weapon out of your hands.

    But they don't know what to cast and when.

    But it is probably a better PvPer than you.

    So, you should fear it.
     
  31. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    why would you need to ride it if you're a gargoyle?


    :coco:
     
  32. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    You got me, the Phoenix makes my pvm thunter tamer soooooooooo OP. When I am face to face with a frost dragon the phoenix CRUSHES my foes. When they try to slowly run away, my birds 600 dex allows it to keep up with even the slowest opponent!
     
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  33. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    What are you talking about? what does a treasure map have anything to do with pvp?

    :confused2:
     
  34. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Sorry you are so slow, but you inferred that I must be reliant on the bird if I defend its use. If my tamer is my thunter, what are the odds I would be using a bird to pvm?

    Rhetorical, cut and dry, have a coke and a smile, next!
     
  35. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    so basically nerfing phoenix speed is not going to affect you since you are a pvm player. Go back to your pvm and don't worry about it
     
  36. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    Yes it would!

    But you provide no evidence it will affect PvP but you want to nerf it, just in case it does. Who needs this :coco::coco:

    It goes with the person who has not even seen a pet in Fel. But still is complaining.
     
  37. The Doctor

    The Doctor Journeyman

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    Had someone in alliance chat mentioning how everyone was faster than this pet he has in pvp and was outrunning it. So I don't know if there is a real issue with the pets speed but stat wise it seems like it would be uber fast. I would be more worried people will catch on that untrained Lesser Hiyru's are now one slot all with dismount as they have always had and can be controlled by someone with bushido making a dismount more possible when getting hit by five of them.
     
    #37 The Doctor, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  38. Fridgster

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    calm down guy. nerfing phoenix speed is not going to happen.
    Fixed it for you :)
     
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  39. cobb

    cobb Sage

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    How so? explain
     
  40. Pawain

    Pawain Grand Inquisitor
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    I did already. Post number 32.

    If you are trying to get to a place you want to play the game and your pet has higher dex. It can keep up with you better. It will still run slower than you , but the closer the pet is the more likely it will not get hung on a tree or rock.

    Hint: If a pet is chasing you. Run through trees and zig zag. The pet will be behind you humping a tree. I can post a pic of that if you want. Also invis or hiding will work fine.

    Pets cant follow a tamer thru Luna without getting hung.
     
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  41. cobb

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    Seems like a very minor issue. Once you get to your destination, It is not going to make a difference. You're pet will perform just as well.

    Also you can use a summoning ball or use the log out and log in function
     
  42. redman2k

    redman2k Adventurer
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    The situation you describe is not accurate. A Phoenix is a 4 slot animal that does not start with dismount. The tamer would have to increase it to a 5 slot meaning they cannot be mounted unless a gargoyle flying.

    Secondly, most of these posts regarding breaking pvp sound like they are a 1v1 situation. Is it fair they are beating your template? They most likely have invested 240 skill points to have a weapon they can aim but not control. There are going to be massive defensive weaknesses in that build.

    I highly recommend finding at least one other person to play with while pvping, you will discover it is quite the overpowered build.
     
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  43. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    You can ride a mount and use them as a dismount pet. Gargoyle not necessary.

    I wouldn't call 240 skill heavily invested these days. Let me just offer you something to consider, an archer tamer in group pvp.

    Again, I am on the fence with these tamables personally...but when you consider the templates you are fighting against these days...is the phoenix that OP? Maybe, we will just have to wait and see what the devs. decide.
     
  44. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
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    This thread has been cleaned up a bit, and some posts have been removed. Please do not troll each other, and make sure to word your posts in a way where they do not contain personal attacks.
     
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  45. PaithanTheElf

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    I fought it yesterday. So, yes it is accurate. The tamer was on an Ethy.

    I didn't say it beat my template. It is most certainly overpowered in pvp.
     
  46. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Grand Inquisitor
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    Please tell me they're not going to nerf yet another pet ? I get it, you don't want pets to be able to damage players in pvp, for whatever reason. But why is it players can still take out pets with the greatest of ease ? I would much rather see something along the lines of , and this is going to sound stupid I"m sure, but some kind of invulnerability of pets from damage by players, and the same reversed. It's my opinion that players shouldnt be able to attack tamed pets, they shouldn't. And the same goes for pets, they shouldn't obey an All Kill that then targets a player..period. I don't know maybe I'm off base :) won't be the first time.
     
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  47. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Actually, it's Stamina that affects movement speed of creatures/NPCs. Hence why when you seriously damage them, and they take a lot of Stamina damage as a result, they slow down immensely. You can also see this with the Fencing Mastery "Pierce", which damages their Stamina by up to 40% of their max Stam over 10 secs. They can be at 95%+ Health then, but 0-10% Stamina, and move slow as hell.
    During Pub 97 testing on TC, when the Phoenix would keep it's up to 300 Stamina after tame, they literally could stick to a mounted player at full speed like white on rice. I told my 270+ Stam Phoenix to follow someone that was mounted, and had them try to run away from it. They couldn't. Bleak was there, and saw it. Hence why they capped pet Stamina at 150 after tame. It was to nerf their movement speed down to a more reasonable level.

    Pets reach 1.25 attack speed at 150 Stamina. Compare the attack speed of GD at 125 Stamina, against a new pet with 150 Stamina. The 150 Stam pet will attack slightly faster. Back when Rune Beetles could reach 180+ Stamina via Bless, they'd attack at the same speed as when they had 150+ Stam, but would move faster.
     
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  48. King Greg

    King Greg Sage

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    Yes.. off base...

    Nerf the ability for pets to dismount in pvp unless the owner is on foot.

    Nerf the speeds of these things when not following. (pvm players want them fast to keep up, but pets should not be moving at mount speed in combat)

    With the ability to increase pets resists, they are going to need to remove the AI cap to pets in PvP or some of these 1,000 hit pets are going to be impossible bring down with all 70's+ and HPR if we can only armor ignore them for 35 damage a pop.
     
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  49. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Crazed Zealot
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    Well thanks for the clarification. I assumed movement was tied to dex since attack rate was determined by stam. I am unfortunately not all knowing.
     
  50. CovenantX

    CovenantX Crazed Zealot
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    Dex effects Parry chance , Healing Speed & Maximum movement speed for pets
    Current Stamina = % movement speed, this is why things move slower when they're damaged enough... pets with high HP don't even lose stamina unless they're hit hard or by something that specifically drains stamina (painspike or macing weapons etc)

    I suggest you test it again.

    150 dex & 125 stam moves slightly faster than 125 dex & 150 stam, with no comparison to 234 dex & 150 (an untrained and low dex - tamed phoenix)

    besides, if that were the case, everyone would be complaining about any pet that can be leveled, instead of only the phoenix, because they'd all be the same speed. . .

    Use "all kill" not "all follow", this is about pets vs players... not pets "following" players, and yes... there is a difference. path-finding is much better when a pet is told to "kill" as oppose to follow.

    They moved faster because their Dex went up with bless...
     
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