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Disparity between Artifacts & Crafted Items

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Eric Ravenwind, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Lore Keeper

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    I just not sure how to fix, problem is new loot is/was way too good. not sure if crafting will ever really compare. only thing I see is make large bump but takes whole kit. I am tired of making, changing suits though.
     
  2. Drowy

    Drowy Seasoned Veteran
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    I would like to see something like master artisan reforging option. When you are for example legendary tailor, you can choose this option in the reforging menu. With a Spined Runic Kit you can get 7 Mods with a 30% chance for each resist to get bumped and mods get max power. Each use costs 15 charges. Horned gets 8 Mods and 50% chance to bump resists and get max mod power, Barbed 9 and 70% chance to bump each resist and get max mod power. Horned has a higher minimum power of the mods, Barbed even more. I am fine with making the mods completely random, but I would also be fine if you could pick a mod or a prefix/suffix group.
    For the other crafting skills it would be similiar.
    Weapons might be reforged the same way, but splinter should be excluded and they shouldnt get too powerful, especially in pvp.
     
  3. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    Making a few slots only available to gear through crafting could be another easier solution.
     
  4. TheWolf

    TheWolf Adventurer

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    Since pretty much everyone agrees people are afk scripting these legendaries, this for me is a reason to raise the crafted armor imbue weight. Pretty ridiculous 1 legendary can fetch 200m. Pretty sure not even a 5 piece crafted suit, crafted with 5 charges of a forging tool would go for 80m. Huge imbalance, in every category! Whether or not you can solo all content with a 8 SI / 5 HPI / 8LMC mod per piece is completely irrelevant to balanced loot

    Since we are talkin about farming. Do all the farming to make these crafted suits. Suits including jewelry and the many weapons a sampire uses. Shout out to all the afk scripters for driving the prices down on all the imbue mats, runic hammers, and POF's. YOU THE REAL HEROES!!

    6 slots and 550 weight seems fair, to compete with the surplus of illegitimately gotten 1200 weight legendaries. I think the weight on imbueable weapons is fine the way it is
     
  5. Laura_Gold

    Laura_Gold Seasoned Veteran

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    o Reforging: you can't always get what you want... Pancake the random omelet. Let me pick what I want the end result to be, and then just tell me how much it's going to cost in terms of runic charges off which runic tool.
    o Did you notice that "enhancing" doesn't work unless you have the Forged Metal Tool? The $$$$$$ is a fiction-breaker. Let us craft those Forged Metal Tools from materials that are present in-game.
    o The refinement system is horrifying.
    o All this omelet should be combined into a pancaking unified crafting system. Seriously.
     
  6. Great DC

    Great DC Lore Keeper
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    I believe part of the decline in population and in pvp is due to global loot being too strong. The item based UO was never good for fun all around play. The last good times in UO were had after SA came out which imbuing leveled the playing field for all players. Imbuing and reforging needs a good bump to compete with global loot, this should have already been done. I literally only hop on a crafter right now for making pvm/pvp weapons. Crafting has been dead for 3-4 years, lets make crafting great again!!
     
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  7. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I could agree with this... SA came out and was tons of fun for everyone... gathering all the ingredients and such.... and finally able to make things the way we needed without the need to just "get lucky" crafting ...

    And then things went to ridiculousness with the way things are now with over a dozen mods on one item.

    I somewhat agree with others that imbuing needs a boost again... 6 mods... 600 sounds good to me. *and don't forget to bump my 2 handed weapons back up with that...*...
     
  8. Uvtha

    Uvtha Stratics Legend
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    Then loot would be even more worthless, and would need a bump again. :(
     
  9. Uvtha

    Uvtha Stratics Legend
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    Because imbuing made loot 100% trash. :/

    Same thing would happen again. That's the problem with power creep.
     
  10. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Can't go back... though I wish we could... but yes... it's the inevitable when they put properties on things... they should have left things as they were but I suppose then the game would have become stagnant... what do you do???

    As it stands if crafting has no place what's the point? Crafting stuff just to fill bods for deco crap??? Only useful for decorating and repair???

    There needs to be a balance between crafting and looting.... IMO they should add special recipes to the Trade Ministers... if you are loyal in a city the Trade Minister ought to offer you quests (in crafting things) to turn in and things to gather from mobs (Yes mobs... so crafters can work together with hunters)... to be able to craft/imbue items over the cap... this would keep those things from flooding the market... they also should have the Brittle aspect.
     
  11. Great DC

    Great DC Lore Keeper
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    That's not true. Global loot was trash for a long time and wasn't updated since ML content. Back then global loot needed to be updated but not to the extent it was done. They went from things being lootable with 3-5 mods to 10-14 mods plus resists in one patch. It was a rushed lazy attempt to fix the situation just like the taming patch. They could've had loot spawn with 6-8 mods with only one resist or two higher then normal, then people would have a reason to do both crafting and gathering loot. Imbuing should be able to to go up to 7 mods now, and maybe 8-9 with reforging. There would still be high end legendary loots that would be better. Only the scripters get the advantage right now of farming the high end stuff, we need to discourage the scripting in this game not encourage it.
     
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  12. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Yep. This.
     
  13. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    What decline?
     
  14. Great DC

    Great DC Lore Keeper
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    There was a lot more players pvping on a lot of shards before the massive global loot introduction. There was still vendors on every shard with stuff on them other then repair deeds. I was pvping on at least 5-6 shards almost every day. Since then most shards have become dead, atlantic has the only population left in uo and all the vendors. Part of it was shard shields and the other part was itemization of the game with global loot. It was a huge decline since then for those reasons.
     
  15. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    Well, in my experience, there is not a decline. But i have to agree that shard shields are a real problem.
    Broadsword used to sell shard transfer tokens, I have no idea why they decided to take a product that people readily paid for and give it away for free. Very generous of them....
     
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  16. Great DC

    Great DC Lore Keeper
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    Look at it as if you were a bot farmer of legendaries. If you farmed up pieces that would sell for roughly 300m-500m on a low population shard, would you attempt to sell them on a shard that has 50-70 people playing or on a shard that has 500-750 people playing on it? Its a simple business decision to move the farmed up pieces to a mall server then try to stand in a rural area and sell them.
     
  17. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    The only character i could gear with no crafter would be a mage. But its always been easier to gear a mage, this was true when reforging was best as well.

    Things i use crafting skills for:
    inscription for SDI
    alchemy for the new kotl potions
    tinkering on my pvp archer for kotl automaton
    tinker for bod reward (the jeweled rock sells very well for deco)
    all crafting types for making base items for reforging / imbuing / enhancement / refinements
    imbuing for jewels and affordable suits
    tailor for cuffs of the archemage
    carpender for the new stone work for houses (masonry)
    reforging stats like 5 hci 5 dci to imbue
    reforging for 100 percent elemental weapons
    reforging for overcap mana leech
    reforging for 40 ssi (mostly for thrown now)
    simple things like cutting up rare cloth (higher yield for higher tailoring)
    crafing SA ingredients like abyssal cloth
    crafting peerless keys.

    These are things that i personally use crafters for.
    I dont think anyone can say that crafting is "useless", yeah its not just burning barbed kits like 10 years ago, but they are more versatile and effect more elements of the game than ever before.

    Just saying "imbued loot doesnt have as many stats as a legendary" is a horrible oversimplifaction.
     
  18. Anonymous UOPlayer

    Anonymous UOPlayer Journeyman

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    publish a: loot is useless! everyone's krafting!
    publish b: krafting is useless! everyone's using loot!
    publish c: loot is useless! everyone's krafting!
    publish d: krafting is useless! everyone's using loot!
     
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  19. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    does anyone seriously want to go back to having to buy 500m worth of barbed kits to get the 1 "good piece"?
    (yes, ive done this many times when that where the best gear was coming from)

    Do i feel like global loot isnt perfect? yes, it was never handled properly, itemized poorly, and allowing it to be bot-farmed ruined what it was supposed to be in terms of itemization. Alot of the problem with stats came from how the reforging menues are based, and what characters need those stats. the fact that mages only need 2 reforge menues, but dexters need 3 is the basis of many of the problems.

    Do i feel like increasing power of craftables would solve anything? no. theres plenty of uses for crafting

    If you were to give another bump to crafting, then like @Anonymous UOPlayer so precisly stated, what would be the new incentive to pvm?
     
  20. Great DC

    Great DC Lore Keeper
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    You sound like your arguing just to argue. If you added one to two more mods to crating gear it wouldn't affect people still trying to get legendaries. What it would do is discourage a lot of bot farming as people could make their stuff vs paying outrageous prices for bot farmed high end stuff. Would be nice to be able to make a decent luck suit instead of just barely getting by like it is now. Half the stuff you named doesn't require and crafting whatsoever, so funny. You sound like your bot farming it and don't want it fixed.
     
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  21. sirion

    sirion Sage
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    As a heavy crafter and pvm sampire, I eventually came to the conclusion that crafting vs loots is FINALLY balanced.

    When I returned to game in 2015 for ToL, at first I was still disappointed at how limited I was able to craft. Then, as I got a grasp at reforging (finally) and also gotten a lot of legendary loots from shadow-guard, I noticed that each category somewhat fit together into that PERFECT picture: crafting, imbuing, reforging, PvM, PvP, combination of mods and intensity. It is really a wonder if you could see it.

    For example, to outfit a modern sampire suit, you only need a couple average legendary/great pieces, plus a couple crafted pieces. Or if you are into high luck mage suit, most players nowadays buy player-crafted suits nowadays (high luck, high resist, good mods) for a reasonable price for the effort (or you can make it yourself just fine).

    Or, for PvM weapons especially against bosses, crafted weps are definitely the choice. While many legendary weps have 100% intensity with multiple leech mods, they dont really work well against boss types, mainly because the lack of Hit Lower Defense and they are always 100% physical. If you're into solo, you cant really use these legendary weps. And for me as a non-PvPer, any PvP gear is essentially JUNK to me and I used to unravel them, but people will pay good gold for them, and vice versa. Certain PvM gears are junk to certain people, but to me they are gooooood stuff.

    Other examples: Doom recipes, britches of warding: its +10 HCI did take away some reforging needs while it also gives more option to outfit a suit. And feudal grip (30% Damage Increase), we now dont need DI on both jewelry slots...etc.

    There are really many options nowadays to fulfill our needs in PvM and PvP. People just need to get up to speed to see the big picture.

    AND......one important note about scripting. About a year ago I bumped into a big time scripter who just returned to game for a patch. He mentioned that he HATED the global loot patch, because it means that he has NO CHANCE of getting the best loots "for players like him who CANNOT be IN GAME". Hah! (This player was eventually perma banned last year)

    That is not to say scripting isn't happening. Sure, it is still out there in some areas; otherwise there wouldn't be so many sick splintering weps out there being farmed from Doom Guardian Room in smaller servers.
     
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  22. Eric Ravenwind

    Eric Ravenwind Lore Master
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    Reforging does quite enough, I'll give it that. If they make crafted items better, I'd like them to add it to Imbuing. This would give the crafter more control over how an item turns out.
     
  23. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    You all ready have full control over how imbuing turns out. Reforging is the random part.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
     
  24. Lore

    Lore Lore Keeper

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    Doesn't reforging take a forging tool that is real money?
     
  25. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    No you are thinking about guaranteed non-failure with enhancing.
     
  26. kaio

    kaio Lore Keeper
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    It all boils down to, what kind of cheating do we want to see in game.. Bod scripters, or AFK farmers.
    In a perfect world this would't have been an issue, if some company did an effort to stop the programs we aren't allowed to talk about.
     
  27. Eric Ravenwind

    Eric Ravenwind Lore Master
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    The game should NOT be built around "what cheaters do". Build the game, add content, fix stuff, and deal with the scripters/cheaters as they come. Boom...
     
  28. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
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    Many posters feel the game and all updates should be designed around cheaters. We cant have that cool thing because cheater will have 100 of them.

    There are people who actually play the game for many hours a day and do not cheat or see anybody cheating.

    I suppose that attitude was created by the developers and will never go away.
     
  29. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Sadly our DEVs seem to design the game around thwarting the Sampires in uber suits making it nearly impossible for any other template to play and forcing everyone into soloistic play... They also design the game around people being on 24/7 farming things... if you aren't able to play 24/7 you aren't going to be able to finish 1/2 the content in a month let alone a year or two. You will have to repeat things over and over every day you have for a month to get what one bot/multiboxer does in a day... Thank goodness keys now last about a week because if you want to do exodus with 3 of your friends it'll take you that long to gather enough keys.

    Cheaters and scripters are responsible for making a crafters life miserable. They are responsible for ruining Blackthorns for most the rest of us... same with Sampires... As well as Doom...

    Same can be said for people being inappropriate with naming things making it impossible to name your character things that seem easy... but nope denied.
     
  30. Eric Ravenwind

    Eric Ravenwind Lore Master
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    I just counted about 10 mods on someone's legendary artifact.
     
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  31. Eric Ravenwind

    Eric Ravenwind Lore Master
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    Just counted 14 mods on another legendary artifact... Platemail Gloves to be exact.
     
  32. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Grand Inquisitor
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    Give us 120 Tinker/Carpenter/Miner..combined with Tailor/Smithy/Magery in the template to then craft Legendaries. There is absolutely no good reason that the very best items should not be hand crafted. Dragons of old, that sat upon their hoard of gold, gems and weaponry stole those items from Man/Goblin/Orc/Elf etc...they didn't cast a Create Weapon spell, and they didn't climb or fly up to the top of Olympus and get them either.
     
  33. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    What i will say on this topic will not make me popular.

    Most of the legendaries are Brittle with 255/255 durability. This will last forever, the solution is to have the items spawn with what they would normally spawn with (35-80 durability). And it would not be too difficult for the devs to run a script to apply this change to already spawned Brittle artifacts.
     
    #83 Mervyn, Jan 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  34. Anonymous UOPlayer

    Anonymous UOPlayer Journeyman

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    wow. u compare urself 2 jesus. kinda messed up.

    & u no what is hard 4 them & what is easy? or r u like those classic shard people who make things up about what's easy? my bet is the latter.

    & brittle last 4-ever, eh? depends i guess on what u do with it but by definition not 4-ever. so try again? actually, don't.

    As to the topic of this thread generally: Most high-property legendary items I see are trash. Lots of properties that don't go together. A lot are Antique thereby rendering them useless for most purposes.

    Please look at my earlier post, liked by the poster I'm responding to: No matter what they do we'll say they "ruined" something.
     
  35. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    I would define forever as, the lifetime of the game and or player.
     
  36. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    And I don't know anything about computer but i imagine they would just have to do: find ("artifact+brittle") make durability =50
     
  37. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    Sounds like a great idea if you want to cause a mass exodus from the game.
     
  38. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    Why would anyone quit?
     
  39. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    Replicas have 150 durability, people still use them, and they last a long, long time.
     
  40. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    Let us be real about this, the items are supposed to have a curse. "Brittle" is just NOT a negative if the item has 255/255 durability. It's meaningless (with the exception of splintering weaps)
    Balance MUST be restored.
     
  41. TB Cookie [W]

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    You'd bring back far more than you'd lose if you brought back an entire genre into the game - Crafting.

    Currently the game is made up of 2 small minded genres, Tamers and Sampires.

    I'd argue reducing the Tamers and the Sampires would be well worth getting the Crafters, Mages, Rogues, PvPers, Warriors and all the other genres that have been kicked out back.
     
  42. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Because most of us play to have fun.... not play to have to farm crap just to maintain and replace worn out gear. If we wanted to do that we'd play one of those stupid leveling games where every few levels you have to spend hours on end farming mobs to get your gear drop... like FF or something and when you reach top level and get all your gear all you get to do is wait for the next expansion to add 10 more levels and another suit you have to farm.
     
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  43. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    But you wouldn't have to replace your armour if you used reforged/imbued armor, that is the point, it would make some people who wanted to replace their armor often use legendaries, while others would not need to.
     
  44. Anonymous UOPlayer

    Anonymous UOPlayer Journeyman

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    You don't play do you. Imbued items have an unmarked "Brittle" property: They cannot be PoFed. Certain artifacts have that too, sometimes marked with "Brittle" sometimes not.
     
  45. Anonymous UOPlayer

    Anonymous UOPlayer Journeyman

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    Hello, I'm Mervyn. I don't know anything about "car" but I imagine it'd be easy to take a 1969 Dodge Dart and give it truck tires, a fuel-injected engine. I know because I compare myself to Jesus.

    Hello I'm Mervyn. I don't know anything about "dog" but I imagine it'd be easy to take a dog and give it a cat's brain. I know because I compare myself to Jesus.

    Hello I'm Mervyn. I don't know anything about "heart" but I imagine that hearts and brains fulfill exactly the same function in the human body. I know because I compare myself to Jesus.

    Ok now let's examine some evidence and see if it would be that easy. Remember when Ornate Axes were considered over-powered so they changed the base damage? When they tried to apply this fix globally it didn't work on all Talon Bites (an artifact Ornate Axe). For years you saw "pre-patch" Talon Bites for sale despite it being their intent to change everything. Remember when "Ethereal" robes started appearing due to a bug? They intended to change them all to Monk's Robes. Did it work as intended? No it didn't, and the remaining ones are dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

    The evidence clearly points toward your "solution" being way more difficult than you assume -- and oh by the way it's a "solution" to a non-existent problem.

    We have lots of different kinds of items, and many paths to get them, in UO. Awesome is a destination with many roads leading to it. That's a good thing. Perhaps it's time to play a different game, Mervie-boy.
     
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  46. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    I am fully aware that you can't pof imbued armour (in fact i once made a thread campaigning that imbued items should display a birttle tag but got trolled off the boards as usual), but you can still pof it to 255 before you imbue it. Hence why there would be an advantage in using reforged/imbued armour over proposed brittle artifact armour with 70 durability.

    And yes there were pre patch talon bites being sold and prepatch pets being sold (that moved super fast). But they were fixed. Surely the devs have now demonstrated that it can be done.
     
  47. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    When you reforge it resets the durabillity so this is actually incorrect.
     
  48. Pawain

    Pawain Stratics Legend
    Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Yup, I have wasted PoF by applying then reforging. But, you can add it after reforging.

    I like to shop so I replace pieces before there would be any issue with durability at 70.

    Leave the durability as is.
     
  49. Mervyn

    Mervyn Babbling Loonie
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    Haha, yes you reforge, then you pof to 255, then you imbue

    @Fridgster i'll accept an apology in writing.
     
  50. Fridgster

    Fridgster Babbling Loonie
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    I'm afraid that only works if you use powerful only. At that point their is no brittle or can not repair tag so of course you can pof it at that point. However if you have actually done reforging you would have realized unless you are using a copper runic only you are going to have to choose fundamental and/or structual to get the over-capped value you are trying for. By using those two option you can no longer pof the item. Also since your entire premise was based on the brittle tag I assumed (as most would) that you were speaking of the brittle tag from reforging which again can not be pofed.